Caucus Minutes - June 3rd 2013

Monday, June 3, 2013 at 8:00 p.m.
Village Civic Hall

The Council of Mayfield Village met in Caucus Session on Monday, June 3, 2013.  Council President Buckholtz called the meeting to order at approximately 8:00 p.m.

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Mr. Buckholtz, Mr. Marrie, Mrs. Cinco, Mr. Marquardt, Mrs. Mills

Also Present:

Mayor Rinker (8:35 p.m.), Ms. Calta, Mr. Cappello, Chief Edelman, Mr. Metzung, Mr. Marrelli, Interim Chief Carcioppolo, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Esborn, Ms. Wolgamuth, and Mrs. Betsa


Dr. Parker, Mr. Delguyd, Mr. Dinardo


  • Presentation by Rachel Webb, Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District
    Powerpoint Presentation by Kyle Dreyfuss-Wells
    • Regional Stormwater Management Program, Community Cost-Share, Service Agreement

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells stated, I am with the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District.  I am here with Rachel Webb.  She is assigned to Mayfield Village.  I am also here with Darnella Robertson who is in our Government Affairs Department.  We are here together to do a very brief presentation to talk about the Stormwater Management Program Service Agreement relating to the Regional Stormwater Management Program.  I want to emphasize, we are focusing on being quick tonight so we are not doing our full presentation about the whole program.  If you want us to do that, we will be happy to do that another time.

For folks that are not familiar with the program, this is a new program of the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District focused on stormwater management. We are not talking about pipes, we are talking about streams, culverts, flooding problems, erosion problems across our whole service area.  This is our service area outlined in red.  Mayfield Village is up here in the Chagrin River Watershed and a little bit of Euclid Creek as well. The Village is within our service area and is a member of the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District and is part of this program.

We are focused on big problems. Flooding and erosions on streets, pipes and culverts that drain more than 300 acres.  This is just an example at the Middleburg Heights/Brookpark border. This is Sheldon Road and this is Abram Creek which drains to the Rocky River which has completely flooded Sheldon Road and has shut this down.  This is a problem we will fix under the regional program.

This is a little bit closer to home. This is Beecher’s Brook which is a tributary to the Chagrin right here in Mayfield Village.  You can see that the stream is unraveling.  A very significant stream erosion. We will fix this problem under the Regional Stormwater Program. 

We are focused on big flooding, big erosion problems.  Obviously we have those problems in the Chagrin and we have those problems in Mayfield Village. There is a new fee that is funding this program.  It is a fee based on impervious surface, hard surface, driveways, rooftops, parking lots that do not absorb stormwater, they cause run-off to happen and there is now a fee placed on that impervious surface.

This is an example of a single-family residential property.  You see the parcel line here. We have actually digitized the impervious surface, the driveway, the garage, the rooftop on all of these properties and put them in to a specific tier which I will talk about. 

The base fee for 2013 is $5.05 for every 3,000 square feet of hard surface. That is referred to as an equivalent residential unit. For most of us it is $60.60 a year. 

How many folks have actually gotten a bill for stormwater from the Sewer District?  Okay. So some of you have already seen this new bill.  On the residential side, we are all grouped in to three buckets or tiers.  So for folks who have smaller homes, so less than 2,000 square feet of impervious surface, so driveway, rooftop adds up to less than 2,000 square feet of hard surface, you are looking at $3.03 a month or $9.09 a quarter. The majority of us or about 70% of our customers are in that second tier, between 2,000 or 4,000 square feet of impervious surface.  Remember, this is not the square footage of your home. This is the rooftop driveway area.  $15.15 a quarter, that’s $60.60 a year. The larger homes that have more than 4,000 square feet are $27.27 a quarter or about $108 a year.   There is a Homestead rate which is a discount for seniors with income and age eligibility requirements.

On the non-single family residential, everything other than single-family residential homes, and Rachel has actually done a workshop for Mayfield Village businesses in conjunction with the Village so we have reached out to your businesses as well. This is the parcel lines. This is an example here of an apartment complex.  All the impervious surface has been digitized. These folks have 120,000 square feet of impervious surface and they are looking at $606.00 a quarter for this large property.

All told, the fee will generate about $35,000,000 a year to address problems across 62 communities in our service area including Mayfield Village. That’s the program in a nutshell. What we are going to do tonight is just real quick go through the Service Agreement which is before you for your consideration.

Any questions on the program?

Ricky Christian asked, we have to pay this, it’s mandatory that it is billed to the people in this County?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, in our service area, yes. 

Mr. Christian stated, in your service area.  Why do you advertise on NPR?  Why do you pay for advertising?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, that’s a great question.  Our decision is that we need to make sure people know who the Sewer District is. So we advertise all over the place. We have the PUP Campaign which is the pick up poop campaign that’s on the side of some buses and RTA trains. We have signs that we put up, we advertise in The Plain Dealer.  It’s a decision that we made that people didn’t know who the Sewer District was. They got a bill from an entity that they did not have any idea who it was.

Mr. Christian stated, they should know, they get water from the same place.

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells clarified, no, they get water from the Cleveland Water Department.  I think that was also confusing.

Mr. Christian stated, the Sewer Department and the Water Department comes at the same time. Why do we have to pay for advertising?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, and the answer is that we wanted to make sure people knew who the agency was.

Mr. Metzung added, one other item in that area is that the Village is required under our Phase II Stormwater to educate the public in stormwater management. As the Regional Sewer District does this district-wide, then we don’t have to do it.  We can take credit for those things that they advertise on our forms.  That helps us.

Mr. Christian stated, I listen to NPR and the news is brought to you by the Regional Sewer District.  I mean, we got to pay the bill, why do we have to pay to advertise?  I don’t see any reason for it.  I mean, everybody has to pay the bill, yet you take our money and you waste it on paying for news on NPR.  I think it’s a waste. Give it back to me. Charge me less.

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells asked, any other questions on the program?

Council President Buckholtz asked, what is the service area?  Is it by County?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, the service area is actually the service area of the District.  It’s most of Cuyahoga County with the exception of Euclid, Lakewood, Fairview Park and Rocky River. So it’s a majority of Cuyahoga County, a small portion of Summit County down in to Hudson and Richfield Village, one community in Lorain County which is Columbia Township and then a little portion of Lake County.  As you may recall, we were formed back in 1972 by Court order and then the District has grown as people have added their sanitary flow in to the District.

Council President Buckholtz asked, so it’s wherever your service is, wherever your pipes go, wherever your drainage goes.

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, right.  In addition to stormwater management, we operate the three big wastewater treatment plants and all of this land by gravity flows towards Lake Erie and the three wastewater treatment plants are either on Lake Erie or on the Cuyahoga. 

Council President Buckholtz asked, what does Lakewood do?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, Lakewood has their own plant.

Council President Buckholtz asked, they don’t have their own water do they?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, they are with Cleveland Water and they have their own wastewater treatment plant. The costs of that continue to rise. Wastewater treatment is really something you want to do on as big a scale as you can.  Euclid is faced with the same issues.

So I am assuming that you all have the Service Agreement in front of you?  So, the Stormwater Service Agreement is before you to do three things.  To detail the service area, to make sure that you understand what the Regional Stormwater System is in Mayfield Village, to talk about the services that the District is going to do under the program and then the obligations of member communities under the program.  It’s basically to just get a basic understanding of how the program is going to work between us and the Village.

I am just going to go through a couple highlights on the Service Agreement.  If you have any other questions, we can talk about it. 

In Article II of the Service Agreement, this is the outline of the Village here. This is our service area.  You can see that you are right up against the edge of our Service area.  Only a little bit of Gates Mills for example is in our service area. Then you have the Regional Stormwater System. Those are streams, pipes and culverts that drain more than 300 acres.  In Mayfield Village, it’s Beecher’s Brook as it comes down in to the Chagrin and it’s the unnamed tributary of the Chagrin. Those are the big streams that cause big problems in the Village that under this program we are 100% responsible for managing those issues along the Regional Stormwater System.

Article III talks about what the District is going to do in general terms under this program.  It’s inspect, operate and maintain, so proactively walk and inspect and maintain the Regional District.  So up and down Beecher’s Brook, removing debris before it causes flooding and erosion problems and maintaining that stretch of the Chagrin system. Emergency response, so if there’s a road failure or a significant stream bank failure that is causing an emergency and stormwater construction problems that are beyond maintenance. Beecher’s Brook is a great example of a problem that we are not just going to fix through maintenance. That is going to need a construction design in 2013/2014.

In addition to services from the District, as Doug pointed out, Phase II compliance support IS starting in 2014 so that’s additional funding to help the NPDES Phase II compliance. The community cost-share funding which is available now and I am sure you talked about this already, that is 25% of the revenue that’s collected in Mayfield Village is available for non-regional project. So, it’s about $75,000 that’s available to the Village to work with Rachel on non-regional, so problems that the District wouldn’t address under this program, Advisory committees, which you are already participating in, Stormwater Master Planning which for the Chagrin we will do in 2014 and then reviewing of development activities in conjunction with the Village when they happen.

Mr. Marrie asked, the $75,000, would that be used only in Mayfield Village?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, that is only for Mayfield Village, correct.

These are just a couple of examples, these pictures are not from Mayfield Village, they are from around our service area. This is Macedonia. This is Brandywine Creek.  Debris problem there. We removed that debris. This is not part of the community cost-share so this is right out of the revenue of the program, the money of the regional program to remove that.   This is in Pepper Pike.  Significant debris problem causing some big erosion. We went in and removed that and stabilized it.

This is an example of an emergency project that we did. This is Mill Creek.  The road was undercut by the erosion of the Creek so we just stabilized that and you can see it is not particularly pretty so we will go back in after master planning and do a better cleaner solution there. This is just to stabilize the road and to avoid undercut.

The community cost-share is the 25% available as a grant program. We talked about this already.  25% of the revenue collected is available for community cost-share.  Essentially you apply on a very easy application. Rachel reviews those. These are just some examples of the type of activity for community cost-share. We just turned around our first one of these in Maple Heights.  It goes through our process and those funds are available for your use.  Any questions on community cost-share?

Council President Buckholtz asked, so in other words in a way you are coming up with a little DOPWIC kind of thing, raising the money to award projects that qualify?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, we are going to raise about $35,000,000 a year in total under the Stormwater Program.  25% of that is available for the communities to use on projects that we would not address under the larger revenue. So it’s a little bit like DOPWIC in that it is a funding stream that is available to you that you have to apply for.  The only thing that’s different is that that $75,000 is only available to Mayfield Village, so Gates Mills can’t apply for that money, Highland Heights can’t apply for that money. You can also bank it for up to five years if you want to save it for a larger project.  If you want to save it even beyond the five years, just talk to Rachel, you can bank it for even longer.

Council President Buckholtz asked, so it’s not comingled?  Our money collected stays here and we can apply to use it?  When you say you evaluate the projects, then we are not bidding against another project?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, the community cost-share, no.  We are only making sure that it’s actually doing good stormwater management.

Council President Buckholtz replied, so it’s kind of like what we are responsible for doing as part of our Phase I?

Mr. Metzung replied, creek repairs that are beyond the scope of the Regional Sewer District. So, like, in your neighborhood, the regional responsibility goes up and through Northwood Lane. But if you get to Norman and Southwood Lane, it doesn’t, so that money could be used to address it.

Council President Buckholtz replied, so it almost could become an extension rather than DOPWIC but of our own sewer relief fund where we take on projects we normally couldn’t do?

Mr. Marrie replied, yes, exactly.

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells added, but the key thing is we make sure we have to work together closely because if there’s a local problem that actually has a regional connection, then we may pay for it out of that larger 75% pot. So that’s why we have to keep in constant dialogue.

So in terms of Article IV which is the obligations of the member communities, these are the things we are asking you to consider.  The first is complying with Title V which is the Stormwater Management Code and from Mayfield Village’s perspective, compliance with Title V basically means making sure that you get a development plan from a development in Mayfield Village that you would review under your Stormwater Management Code that you also share it with us so that we can review it. We don’t have authority to stop things, we are just providing review comments. 

Access to the Regional System through public rights of way, provide available data which I think you have already done if you have information about Beecher’s Brook, if you have information about other components of stormwater in your community.  You have hosted the meeting of the Chagrin Watershed Advisory Committee.

I think the biggest thing for you to consider and make note of is we are asking for your assistance to obtain city permits if there are permits we may need.  As you consider riparian setback zoning for example, we want to make sure we are on the right side of that and then not to charge the District for permits necessary to do the work on Beecher’s Brook for example and other work on the Regional system. Designate a primary contact which you have already done and then again provide the Stormwater Management Plans.

That’s the Service Agreement. It has a bunch of attachments which is a little embarrassing because we came up with all of these documents. They are all very good and they read well.  Those are all attached to the Service Agreement.  Here are some contacts.  Rachel is there with her phone number and her e-mail.   And then, Find my Fee, you can look up your stormwater fee and you can look up your neighbor’s stormwater fee which a lot of people seem to like to do.

Council President Buckholtz asked, I see all the extensions are 881. When it’s flooding, do we have a number we should call?

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells replied, that’s a great question.  Yes, we do actually have a number.  You call the customer service number which is a 24-hour number.   216-881-8247.

Ms. Webb added, in that situation for emergencies, I am actually not your best contact at that point.  Customer service is the best contact. They take in the call.  It is identified as an emergency. They loop it directly to operations and maintenance. At that time, I am not your best contact.  That customer service number is.

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells added, this is our customer service.  This is not Cleveland Water customer service.  This is at 40th and Euclid.  I am not disparaging, I am just saying this is ours.

Council President Buckholtz stated, in the not so distant past when we were flooding, there were actually numbers for the Service Department, Fire Department and volunteers from the neighborhood that would clean out basements and garages and would try to keep the water off the road.  Paying additional dollars is that service  in return.

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells agreed.  I think also we are very focused on minimizing those things so that they don’t happen. That’s where their inspection and maintenance and pulling debris before the flood event is so important to make sure there are not blockages.

Council President Buckholtz stated, in the not so distant past, you came up with a linear fee, a new fee that was attached to our bill, I believe it was an NEORSD fee for maintaining infrastructure based on the linear.

Mr. Cappello clarified, when the sanitary sewer was put in down Worton, we had an agreement with Cuyahoga County Sanitary. That is your maintenance fee. They maintain the sanitary sewer.  That is the fee they charge.

Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells asked if there were any other questions.  There were none.  Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells thanked everyone.

Council President Buckholtz thanked Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells and Ms. Webb.


Safety & Service

Mrs. Cinco reported, Safety and Service met this evening.  Everything discussed is on the agenda.


  • Volunteer Appreciation Event (not to exceed $7,500)

Ms. Wolgamuth reported, this event has been scheduled for Friday, August 2nd.  The theme this year will be Blues and Barbecue. We are requesting the same amount as last year.

Council President Buckholtz asked, any questions? There were none.

  • Bid Results – Phase I infrastructure work at The Grove

Ms. Wolgamuth reported, I believe everyone knows that The Grove Committee has been meeting since last October and has been working to determine what kind of programming we would like to hold at The Grove.  They have planned an Open House for Saturday, June 22nd. We are going to be soliciting as much feedback from the community as we can. They have also suggested so far some basic infrastructure improvements to The Grove that would be needed regardless of the direction the programming takes. We took those out to bid.  You should have received copies of the bid specs and the bid results.  Landscape Architect McKnight is here tonight.  He can answer any questions about the specs and also Grove Committee members. Garry Regan, Rick Hall and Pat Andreczyk are all here tonight if you have any questions for them as well.

Council President Buckholtz asked, what time is the Open House on June 22nd

Ms. Wolgamuth replied, it is from 11:00-1:00.

Council President Buckholtz asked, any questions?

Mr. Marrie reported, we discussed this in Finance Caucus also. There was concern to get this voted on as soon as possible because they would like to get a jump on it for some of the programs they are talking about.  I wonder if we may discuss it in depth at this meeting so we can put it on the Special Meeting this evening for a vote.  Do we have to amend this?

Ms. Calta replied, not the Caucus agenda, but if you do place it on the Special Meeting agenda you do.

Council President Buckholtz stated, I said for a long time that I don’t think we talk about enough items in Caucus. That’s what it is for.  I am all for talking about it and going over it as much as Council wishes.  I have had numerous discussions.  I already feel that it doesn’t belong on today’s Special Meeting agenda.  I will save some of my comments for further discussion.  Garry Regan is the Chair of the Committee.  We have engaged in a number of conversations and e-mails over the last few days.  I understand it would be of great benefit.  I think we have some expense issues that we would like to go over.  Everyone will get to talk.  I know there are people here that want to talk to another issue and speak to that issue.  Now is the time to talk about it.

Garry Regan

Chairman, The Grove

I am just a Chairman of a very engaged group of people who have had a good time doing this.  Very quickly, I understand the money issues. We discussed the bids.  I am not pushing either for The Grove or for the very exciting programs that we have put on paper.  We are very excited to bring it to the table and the community.  What I am asking is that if you are positively inclined towards this project, you do it as quickly as possible. Forgive me. We are working with a real pro here, but I don’t trust the weather.  I have moved a lot of dirt in my day.  I know that if you get rain and if you have to bring in extra dozers and do this kind of work, it can be delayed.  All I am looking for is to get a jumpstart on the work if you are so inclined so that we can beat the weather, we can get grass growing, we can move that dirt and we can have these programs scheduled without much of a fuss.  If you are so inclined.

Council President Buckholtz asked, the program that you are talking about, are you talking about the Open House?  We have talked about a couple potential things, a Lincoln presentation and I forgot what the other one was.

Mr. Regan replied, starting August 24th we are planning on a Dancing Under the Stars Program. Since we are going to be engaging a dance floor at that time, we have already added a potential dance presentation of modern dance. A school is going to come here and put on a full day of a dance program. Then we are going to have the Lincoln at The Grove.  It’s near and dear to me.  It’s a Civil War, Lincoln Garfield,  the Mayfield Historical Society is joining with us, the Soldiers and Sailors Monument is joining with us. The Civil War Roundtable is hosting it. We are also going to have Yoga at The Grove.  Nothing that we have planned or talked about cannot be pushed maybe other than the promotion of it. We are working with the Library. We have a meeting tomorrow with the Metroparks.  I met with President and Mrs. Garfield last Saturday at Monroe.

Council President Buckholtz asked, President Garfield?

Mr. Regan replied, General and President James A. Garfield and his lovely wife Lucretia. My main thing, I am a little bit nervous about the weather.  You saw on Friday what happened when we get a downpour.  I am concerned that if Council is positive about this and we are all committed to going ahead that it comes off as quickly as possible. The last thing I would want is for the positive vibes to start generating and then all of a sudden because of the grass not growing or the biggest boulder that’s ever been uncovered in that area that we have it delayed.  If Jim could assure me that it would only take 2 weeks and we would be ready to go, take your time, as long as you are positively inclined. But if not and you are positively inclined, let’s just move it on.   Let’s just get on with it.  At our last meeting we were told that the contractor could move 24 hours or 2 weeks.  I would like that 2 weeks.

Council President Buckholtz stated, we appreciate that.

Mr. Regan asked, can I answer anything for anybody else?

Council President Buckholtz asked, any comments?

Mrs. Mills stated, I would like Mr. McKnight to explain what happened with the bid.

Mr. McKnight reported, we advertised the project for bid. We received 6 bids. The low bid was $57,360. The high bid was $71,302. We had a second low bid at $58,360.  We talked to the low bidder.  He is comfortable with his bid. We had a line item in the budget for $50,000.  That was back in February. Since that time, at a meeting of the The Grove Committee as well as Service Director Metzung, we decided to add a connecting walk to the bid package which is not in the estimate. This is a walkway that goes from the bike path –

Council President Buckholtz asked, that’s the ADA?

Mr. McKnight replied, yes.  That’s the connection to the poolhouse where the restrooms are located. We also switched the pavement from asphalt to concrete. We are comfortable with the low bidder. We talked to him. He needs four weeks to complete his work. The work includes drainage, paving and then fine grading and seeding of lawn.  Unfortunately the lawn seeding is the last item they do. We usually like to have 28 days to have the lawn established. That’s where the whole timing issue really comes in to play. 

Council President Buckholtz asked, what exists there now?

Mr. McKnight replied, right now there is a graded and established grass area. At the bottom is where we would be doing all the drainage. We have underdrains and a couple of yard drains and then pervious paving which will actually be the stage element.  We will also put in the ADA accessible walkway from the bike path and then the connection to the drop off area. Those are the three we will do construction wise this summer. Right now it is just a lawn slope with no accessible walkway for the public to actually get to the actual amphitheater.

Council President Buckholtz asked, comments?

Mr. Marquardt stated, I voiced this objection at Finance that almost a year ago we requested a business plan, something that would show a forecast for The Grove. We have not seen that forecast, that business plan.  I am not in favor of supporting this without having some better idea of what the plans are in the future.

Mr. McKnight stated, what we have completed over the last several months is the Master Plan, the overall design for The Grove.  With the help of the Citizen’s Advisory Committee and The Grove  Committee, we are beginning to understand what kind of programming is actually the goal of Mayfield Village.  You can’t really come up with a business plan until you have a good program.  That’s part of what’s all transpiring.  No matter what the programming is, though, you need to have infrastructure to get the public to the venue.  The second phase of infrastructure which we did present to Council back in March was electrical supply also. That’s another anticipated expense in the range of about $50,000 to actually bring power to this.

Council President Buckholtz asked, how much?

Mr. McKnight replied, $50,000.  That is for Phase II.  Those were presented back in March to Council as a beginning of a vision of what the Committee anticipates together with the overall design of it.

Mr. Regan stated, I think that anything that either we or a hired gun professional could put together would just be conjecture.  I think we are very fortunate in that the kinds of infrastructure we are talking about is basically you need it to get on to the site. What we have been able to do with an engaged group of people is bring four ideas.  My comment is if you build it, they will come.  Out of this first test, initial run, I agree with you.  Hopefully we will have the opportunity to then put together a plan and conjecture. When we first got together, there was ideas like Blossom, Cain Park, whatever.  Those are big dollars.  I believe out of this year, 2013, we will be able to have a foundation saying this is what we want here, this is what we can do, this is what we don’t want to do.  I appreciate what you are saying. We are doing it without a budget and with creative thinking.  Again, to do anything, this is about as basic as you can do. This is getting you on the site, period. 

Council President Buckholtz asked, any comments?

Mr. Marrie stated, it’s the beginning of it. It’s the barebones beginning of it.  It’s something that has to be done no matter which way we go.  Bill has a point, what is the long term?  But they don’t know what the long term is right now so they are not going to throw it at you not knowing exactly what it is.

Mr. Marquardt stated, the nature of a business plan or a forecast always has uncertainty but it shows the thinking that went in to it and reduces it to some numbers that make it make sense. Anything that you put together at any point in time is always going to be a forecast but that’s the first step to do in a start up operation, develop a plan as far as where you think you are going to go and what the results are going to be.

Mr. Regan stated, Bill if we would have done that, we would have given you a Master Plan with lots of forecasts, lots of spreadsheets. It would have meant absolutely nothing because we would be right here at this time right now saying, build it and they will come and if you give the community the entry on to the property we can develop programs. If we would have come to you with a $2 million investment in ticket booths, whether or not you would have been all for it would have meant diddly because we would have nothing to support it with. Now we are offering you something to support it with.

Council President Buckholtz stated, Garry if we can, I have two other people.

Rick Hall

Grove Committee member

I completely understand the desire for a business plan. One of the things about, to echo what Garry was saying, there’s a ton of ideas.  It’s a beautiful space.  If you haven’t been over there, take the chance, walk along the space.  It’s beautiful.  It is a space with an immense amount of potential and ultimately, even around the Committee, there’s this range of opportunities of things we can do there. We are ultimately not going to know exactly what we are going to do with it until we engage the community in some level.  We feel very strongly that we need to get the community in to the space before we can determine a business plan, before we can determine here are the opportunities we definitely want to pursue, here’s how we are going to run them. Here’s what it is going to cost us. That type of thing.  In order to get the community there, we have to meet these basic needs which is all that is there.  We have to meet the ADA requirements.  That explains the path the committee has taken. There’s so much potential there. To put together here’s what we think we can do with this space is going to be very very speculative, pure guesswork.

Council President Buckholtz stated, I don’t think we need to rehash that.  I don’t think there’s anyone on Council that doesn’t understand that part of it.  Whenever you are dealing with art and wonderful amenities, you really never know where you are going to end up.  You just keep cutting away at it. I don’t think that’s the issue.  I will get back to that.

Ricky Christian

SOM Center Road

To Mr. Hall, where do you live?

Mr. Hall replied, Oakton Circle.

How close is that?

Mr. Hall replied, half a mile, mile.

Okay, who on the committee lives right there on SOM Center?

Mr. Hall replied, I am probably as close as 100 houses.

Well, I am closer and I don’t think it’s a good idea.  At all.  It’s going to be noisy.  You do these projects and nobody ever asks the people that live there whether they want them.  You just do them. It’s going to be noisy.  We’ve already got the baseball diamonds. We listen to the pool all summer long.  Now you are telling me you are going to have concerts? You are going to have music?  Okay.  I have a quadraphonic stereo.  I am going to set it up in my backyard and I am going to blast In A Godda Divida every night.  See how the neighbors like it.

Council President Buckholtz replied, to a point you’re right.  Thank you Rick.

Mr. Marrie asked, getting back to this and also Bill’s point on the master plan. Couldn’t we go ahead and get this basic barebones infrastructure going on this part of it to get going so you have a base and then in the future go ahead after that and put a long term plan for a whole ballgame because they don’t know what the whole ballgame is.  If we wait for that, we are not getting the basic stuff.

Council President Buckholtz stated, as Garry and I discussed, that’s certainly a possibility.  I don’t want to speak for Mr. Marquardt, but I would like to bridge this idea of a business plan versus a master plan.  I don’t think Council’s looking for a master plan.  Obviously the people that just left talking about drainage and Mayfield Village has a hotbed of problems with drainage and impervious land and so forth, anything we can do to improve drainage is a good thing especially at a site that lends itself to community gathering in whatever shape or form. What Council needs to know and we are not impatient to a point, but this history of where if we approve one phase then we are sort of guided in to a second phase and then you spent $100,000 taxpayer’s money. There’s always a third phase and if you don’t move forward with that, the question arises from residents or the Administration, well  Council you approved $100,000 at this location, how can you not go to the third phase and the fourth phase. We are talking about dollars here. For example, before we go to anything else, I would like to turn to the Finance Director, Ron.  Do you know by any chance what we have spent so far?  It’s a volunteer committee and I really appreciate the enthusiasm.  That was the bulk of my conversation with Garry.  It takes a lot to form a committee and get people with zeal to get to something. We really recognize that in our residents and want to do everything we can to follow their lead.  I noticed that we have a number of drawings, renderings, a powerpoint. These things cost money.  Is there a way you can give me an idea to date what we have spent and without getting too meticulous, I know a lot of the mounding and clearing was done in-house.  It was done as training exercises for some of our Service Department members using new equipment. It was an opportunity to clear and do things.  They were still paid. So, is there any idea you could give to Council as a whole what has been spent to date?

Mr. Wynne replied, ballpark we spent about $38,000 to finish capping the site and seed it. I am estimating about $10,000-15,000 for architectural services and marketing materials and pamphlets.

Council President Buckholtz asked, drawings, renderings, powerpoint?

Mr. Wynne replied, yes. And the pamphlet that we printed up.

Council President Buckholtz stated, very nice pamphlet.

Mr. Wynne added, I have to get with Doug.  I know he planted some trees on the site.  I don’t know how many and what costs were involved with those.  That’s really it.

Council President Buckholtz asked, take a guess, $5,000, $10,000?

Mr. Metzung stated, around $3,000.

Council President Buckholtz asked, so we have a lot of sweat equity in it as well?  I am not looking for a breakdown of people’s hours or what they were doing.  It’s safe to say we already have $50,000 in there and then the drainage work and then another $50,000.  I for one when a bid goes over for less than $10,000 I am not picking on those kind of dollars. To run electrical which again will come up soon?

Mr. Wynne replied, that’s not planned until 2014.

Council President Buckholtz asked, the electrical?

Mr. Wynne replied, correct.

Council President Buckholtz asked, so you are talking about $50,000 is all we have to spend to just get the site drained so people can gather there?

Council President Buckholtz stated, I would just once again echo and I will throw it back open, specifically Mr. Marquardt who asked the questions about the business plan.  I am going to make this statement and then you can add or contradict me.  I think it’s important at every step, say when you want electrical, electrical for what?   We have seen some great drawings and some great things and every time you come up with a show or a use, I think that there’s two things that go with it.  One is, what are the additional costs for that?  The other is the survey that Diane talked about putting out or has put out?

Ms. Wolgamuth stated, we will have a survey at the Open House.

Council President Buckholtz stated, that’s a great idea.  I actually talked to Council members about doing a survey of our own. We have a lot of things we are juggling and they are all great.  You have the trial.  You have the ballfields that are really expanding.  You’ve got some great projects. Some great potential. We need to know where to put these resources and still pay down debt and still grow the Village and make it a great place to live.  I don’t know if that clarifies things.

Mr. Marrie stated, it confuses things.

Mayor Rinker asked, can I speak at this? 

Council President Buckholtz replied, you certainly may.

Mayor Rinker stated, I do think it confuses things. First of all, I am not sure that I understand you’re saying this always has a way of changing over time as if that were a bad thing.  I would point out that –

Council President Buckholtz stated, I didn’t say it was a bad thing.  I just said that it goes in to more.

Mayor Rinker asked, is that a problem?

Council President Buckholtz replied, I don’t know.  That’s for the taxpayers to decide.

Mayor Rinker stated, I think that we have been very frank with our taxpayers in saying how we are paying down our debt, how we are expanding our resources for infrastructure, how we provide for services.  I don’t think there’s anybody who has paid any attention to these issues that would say that we are not handling those things effectively.  I beg to differ that we have so many things this year to juggle. We do have a major road project, but that is pretty well in hand.  In terms of the ballfields, I don’t think they are expanding.  I do think that it’s important to note that this is a committee of volunteers who have come together who have worked out their own agenda who have come up with ideas, they have petitioned this Council on more than one occasion to support this effort.  My sense is that when we are so focused upon a business plan, we forget from the very beginning we have been talking about something.  I don’t know what there is to worry about because this Council each time needs to look at these things pretty carefully.  I don’t think we are doing anything but looking at these carefully.  There was a master plan about a year ago.  It shows a lot of good ideas. The caveat from the beginning has been we are not just going to go out and assume to build all these things. We are going to see what the temperature is in the community and see what people want as we go along. To me from a budgeting standpoint, this is a very effective way to move incrementally and in fact that’s almost verbatim what I said about a year ago, we would do this in a way as much as people would want.  It is designed right now to be a very pleasant open space, but we have people who have looked at it and understand that the design lends itself to certain things. We are talking about the potential of putting in a ice skating rink. We have talked about year round activities and the potential for it.  We understand that this basic infrastructure, Bill I remember talking to you years ago when you called Peter Lewis about a design for this place.  You were all excited about some kind of a venue that would be an outdoor facility that would be used for –

Council President Buckholtz stated, that hasn’t changed.

Mayor Rinker stated, I think this is no different. We are talking about a very basic –

Council President Buckholtz stated, you don’t remember what year that was?

Mayor Rinker replied, 2005. 

Council President Buckholtz stated, yes, you, me and your dog were there on the site.  I have not been bad since.

Mayor Rinker stated, understood.  I think that’s a shame because these are people who have invested in really developing something. Rather than looking at the glass as half empty, we ought to be looking at how we might be able to fill it up. We have programming opportunities.  We have seen it in our Rec Department. This is a group that is looking at cultural activities. As you all know for years we have had the Fairmount Center here. We don’t pay anything toward their overhead.  They provided all the productions. We provided the facility.  Other than lighting and a few other elements of having the space, that has really been their show to operate. That is an organization that is phasing out. We provide gazebo concerts. We provide a lot of other different activities through our Rec program. Here’s one where people have really embraced the venue and they are coming forward with ideas, taking it a step at a time. Mr. Regan was trying to say really what the whole Committee has been talking about, if you read the Minutes, is they are not trying to leverage this any more than what makes sense. There’s a timetable that they would like all of us to pay attention to this Summer. They have taken it on their own.  I don’t know if Council wants to have a separate poll, but I am sure this Committee would welcome any kind of input from Council members if they want to show up at the meeting or if Council wants to come up with some suggestions. That’s something that can be put out there.  Every step of the way we have tried to be very open with what we are trying to do. We are trying to start modestly. This is a group that has taken on that task pretty much on its own.

Council President Buckholtz asked, are you on the Committee?

Mayor Rinker replied, no.

Council President Buckholtz stated,  I just asked.  I didn’t mean to interrupt.  You said that Garry Regan was trying to make a point.  I thought he made the point quite well.

Mayor Rinker stated, then I don’t understand why we need a business plan.

Council President Buckholtz replied, I will explain why.

Mayor Rinker stated, maybe Mr. Marquardt can explain it. What I heard was that it is the essential first step to have a business plan.  I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. We have already designed the facility.  Now what we are doing is trying to see what modest improvements will support activities. That may be the end of it.  But if not –

Council President Buckholtz stated, that’s not the issue.

Mayor Rinker asked, what is the issue?

Council President Buckholtz stated, you actually brought it up yourself.  You said we designed a venue right here in Reserve Hall.  At that time we said we don’t want to hear about painting, we don’t want to hear about the carpeting. We want a plan of what kind of dollars we are looking at.  It was a lot of work.  It took at that time, but we did it, the Administration did it.  You came up with a number of $350,000 or $400,000 and broke it out. That’s all that is being asked for here. 

Mayor Rinker stated, when we came to this facility, we understood at the time that the acquisition was important because the church was going to move out and it was important that we take control of this site. That was the pivotal foundational question. Afterward the question was what would make sense in terms of economics as far as keeping this space or what.  These things are all details that over the years we go through them.

Council President Buckholtz stated, I find this confusing the issue.

Mayor Rinker stated, you are the one who started talking about this facility.

Council President Buckholtz stated, no you mentioned it. You said we built a facility here and now we want to build another one just like it.

Mayor Rinker stated, you totally missed what I was saying.  I said we built the facility, meaning the amphitheatre.  Not this building, I am talking about the amphitheatre.

Council President Buckholtz stated, you said we had an agreement with Fairmount.

Mayor Rinker stated, I was saying I was talking about programming.  We had programming here analogous to what this Committee is developing out at The Grove.  I think that we are talking about aspects of our community services that we are growing. We don’t have just a conventional recreational program. We have looked to other cultural arts programming. The amphitheatre provides an opportunity for some of those. This is a committee that has spoken to them. For what they are talking about, it is a very basic step by step process only if this becomes more ambitious in the goals and some kind of business plan is essential then.  Then we will be talking about what kind of construction goes on, what kind of seating would be necessary?  Is that something people will want? That is part of the poll. What does that cost?  How will that work?  What’s the electrical?  All those components would be costed out.  All we are doing right now is providing something that is very basic, very fundamental.  You have already been given an explanation that it is something that can work this year.  These are folks that are coming to this Council and very sincerely and rather humbly petitioning Council and I just don’t know why there is so much pushback rather than embracing something good for the community.  I would think that you would want to be more supportive than cross-examining on this issue. That’s what I am getting.

Mr. Marrie stated, everything has to start somewhere. This is the start of this.  If you don’t have this, then you have nothing.  If you are going to wait until every conceivable thing is put in to a plan, you will never have it.  You have to start somewhere. This is it.   That’s why I think we should go ahead with this as a start and then basically say nothing else is done until we have an overall plan. But you have to start somewhere.

Council President Buckholtz asked, didn’t I just say that?

Mr. Marrie replied, no.

Council President Buckholtz stated this is one of the problems that I see is that when Council asks questions we immediately get a lecture on why we are dampening the spirits of our residents.  Not at all in our discussions did I show any indication of dampening your spirits.  You keep saying we, that’s why I asked if you were on the Committee or representing Administration.  You frame it as pushback when we ask questions about dollars.  I made the connection to Reserve Hall because I said –

Mayor Rinker stated, let’s cut to the chase.  This was asked to be put on the agenda.  The record was the request was made to put this on the agenda for a Special Meeting and the Council President was, I was told said, I don’t think it’s time to put it on the agenda.

Council President Buckholtz asked, you were told?

Mayor Rinker replied, we don’t live in some secretive society.  It was related back to me.  People communicate. Is that so strange?  And no, you don’t immediately get a lecture.  I have been quiet in a number of meetings, but this is one where I look at –

Council President Buckholtz stated, I am working very well with the Chairman of The Grove Committee on this and I work very well with Diane Wolgamuth. That’s your opinion and I may agree, I may disagree, but this is a Council meeting.

Mary Murphy

Hardwood Court

I am pretty naïve.  I was still under the impression that we had been dumping dirt in the area for free.  I had no idea it was up over $50,000.  In light of that, I do think before much else happens, there should be some sort of business plan in place.

Marge Eisenberg


I would like to ask if you say you are going to include the people that live in the Village, why don’t you ask them first before you spend another dollar on this?  Ask them first if this is what they want. Do they want a skating rink?  Do they want a Grove? Do they want this?  Ask the people who live here because ultimately ladies and gentleman, we pay for everything. Thank you.

Mary Murphy

The Open House would be that opportunity?

Mrs. Mills replied, it’s the opportunity to see what The Grove is all about.  Anybody in this room has the opportunity to go to a meeting.  I have been to two and am very impressed at how hard working and how devoted these people are. They are not trying to spend money frivolously. They are trying to be very frugal on what they are doing. Basically this figure here, the only thing that was added was the walk because it’s asphalt now and the curb ramp. That happened to come in higher.  If the bid would have been $50,000, it would have been a line budget. Would we be arguing then, Mr. President?

Council President Buckholtz replied, I am not arguing. I am asking.  I would like to take the position here to move the agenda forward. We can deal with amending the agenda in the Special Meeting. We can entertain that notion.  I am glad we discussed it.  I think we need to have these discussions in Caucus more.  If it gets to a point of what appears to be arguing or discussing or delving in to these things further, it was always my impression of that’s what Caucus was for.

Mr. Marrie agreed.

Council President Buckholtz continued, and the only criticism that Council has ever gotten that I totally agree with is when nobody has anything to say at Caucus and nobody’s read their packet and  nobody’s up to date on information that the Administration is providing.  I would just like to also add to that that it is frustrating if Council does ask for information and we don’t receive it in a timely manner.  That’s an old old complaint.  I am not suggesting that it is never done, not done, whatever.  I am just entertaining at least one Councilman’s request for that information.  So if we go down to the next item.

Mayor Rinker stated, let me just clarify.  Are you saying that the one Councilman’s request is for this business plan?  Is that what you are talking about?

Council President Buckholtz replied, no.  I am saying that it makes sense and this entire Council needs to see a monetary, the same way we did Reserve Hall.

Mayor Rinker asked, what have you not seen?

Council President Buckholtz replied, I don’t know.  Are we going to drain the site and call it a day?

Mayor Rinker replied, no.  When you say, you are implying that you have not been provided information, what information ---

Council President Buckholtz replied, if you want to hammer this dead horse for a while we can do that.

Mayor Rinker stated, no, I want to  know, what haven’t you been provided?  We are a very diligent --

Council President Buckholtz stated, we have been shown pictures and renderings and wonderful products from Jim McKnight.  I now know what they cost.  I did not know what they cost before.  I have a general idea on what we have invested.  I personally think that drainage anywhere in the Village is a good thing and if it’s drainage where people stand to congregate, I think it’s a good thing.  My personal opinion, I am not following a pack of sheep here.  I am saying, my personal thing would be before we go to electrical that we understand that if then statements, if we want to have this kind of production, if we want to go to the upper left hand corner of your drawing, what does that cost?  If we want to go to this type of programming, what does that cost?  If you think that’s confusing the issue.

Mayor Rinker stated, that’s a totally specious argument.  We were providing those things as we go along. That’s been the whole point.  It’s not that we don’t provide the information or the people aren’t forthcoming, the difference is that ---

Council President Buckholtz stated, what I said was back to Reserve Hall the question was asked and it was answered clearly what do we want to pay, how much money do we want to put in to this facility to look for some kind of an exciting gathering place where we can do a myriad of events.  Is that a problem?

Mayor Rinker asked, do you mean when we went out to bid, we had all these architects that came in from anywhere from $1 to $2.5 million of renovations?

Council President Buckholtz stated, yes and we said we weren’t going to do that. We scaled down and made a modified business plan or a not to exceed.

Mayor Rinker stated, I think that begs the issue of what we are talking about tonight. We are simply talking about a line item that this group has presented. We have bids that have come back. Council has been provided with a generalized picture of what could be projected there.  It’s only going step by step.  To your point about electrical, there’s no question there is going to be discussion when the time comes sometime next year or maybe later this year but for next year’s budget, the electrical would be involving certain items and would be for certain purposes. The whole point is it is growing programming facilities in conjunction with each other.

Council President Buckholtz stated, we are aware of that.  I would like to move on if we may.


Mr. Wynne reported, the State has finalized the 2012 Audit Report.  Copies are available for Council if they would like that along with the management comments. A copy of the report will be posted on the website.

Police Department

  • Request to go out to bid for sale of police vehicle and motorcycle

Chief Edelman reported, I have two vehicles that we are ready to sell.  I am seeking approval to go out to bid.  One is a 2004 Harley Davidson we replaced and the other is a 1999 Chevy pick-up truck that we acquired from the Fire Department two years ago. 

Council President Buckholtz asked, any questions?  There were none.

Fire Department

  • Fire Station Mold Issue

Mr. Wynne reported, we have had health issues with several of our firefighters over at the station. We had a company come in, Auburn Environmental, and do a study on the building. We found extensive mold throughout the facility, the cause of it being improper and no ventilation being put in to the roof system when the building was constructed. They have recommended four things that need to take place.  One is remediation of the mold, all the duct work has to be wrapped and insulated.  Vents have to be put in to the roof system and the ceiling tiles replaced.  Those four items are all on Special Meeting.  Hopefully they will be passed tonight so we can begin right away. This whole process will cost about $19,000-20,000, but it is a health issue for our employees.

Council President Buckholtz asked, is there liability on the construction company? 

Mr. Wynne replied, I have talked to our insurance carrier and am going to find out if it is covered through our insurance and we are also going after the building contractor.

Service Department

  • 2013 Road Program – Change Order

Mr. Metzung reported, I hope everyone got to look at the memo regarding the change order for our road program this year.  Most everyone was at the Finance meeting. We have an overrun in our base concrete repair.  The base repair represents about 40% of the contract.  We back out 40% of the contingency money. We are looking for a change order in the tune of $104,000.  I don’t want to take all the contingency money and move it because it would stymie anything that would come along as the project moves forward.  Are there any questions regarding the road program?  It is moving along. We have found a lot in this neighborhood which is in very poor shape. The concrete was in very poor shape. Thus the cost overrun.

Council President Buckholtz asked, that’s what you would attribute to the cost overrun?

Mr. Metzung replied, yes. The concrete was very poor. The base was horrendous.  The subsoil.  It appears the poured a lot of concrete right on the soil.

Council President Buckholtz asked, anything else?

Mr. Wynne replied, even with the change order being requested, the project is still coming in $50,000 below what we have budgeted.

Parks & Recreation

  • Sports Field Restrooms

Mr. Thomas would like to make a few program comments about our restrooms and then give an opportunity for the audience to possibly say a few comments before John gets in to the bids.  We have the use of the soccer complex from early April to mid November. We have approximately 20,000 youth and adult players and spectators that use our soccer complex. We have two port-a-potties to serve those individuals.  Our Recreation Board, our Mayfield Soccer Club, the Adult Soccer Program, the Progressive employees, Mayfield Village Recreation Programs, the Summer Camps, tournaments, High School and Middle School users are very supportive of seeing these restrooms being built for many reasons.  We have been talking about these restrooms for the last four years and it’s time now to do something.  I would open up the floor to anyone who would like to make a comment.

Council President Buckholtz stated, it would not be appropriate for you to open up the floor. I  have already discussed with Mary that when we come to our Special Meeting we have an open portion and that will be before we have the vote and then we will open the floor if you can wait just a little bit longer. Thank you.  I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Mr. Thomas replied, okay.  John do you want to make a few comments about the bids?

Mr. Marrelli reported, as you can see, the bid tabulations came in. The base bid which was the building only was roughly $260,000. The utility connections, water sewer and electric came in at $64,000. Apparently there was a misunderstanding from what I gathered from the Finance meeting that there was a theory that the base building and the utilities, whatever that cost would be, Progressive was going to help us pay for that.  I am here to dispel that rumor. That is not the case. The case is they are going to do value added site work which is the pavers, pavilion and landscaping.  I want that on the record to be clear.  Progressive has volunteered to spend an upwards of $80,000 for landscaping, patio and pavilion area. So it’s $260,000 for the building.  If we do nothing else, we put that building out there, we can’t use it.  Another $64,000 for the utilities.  Now we can use the building.  The site work is going to be a gift from Progressive. That’s going to be worth probably $80,000.

Council President Buckholtz asked, there were rumors?

Mr. Marrelli stated, in the Finance Committee it came out that there was an impression that Progressive was going to participate in paying for parts of the project.

Council President Buckholtz stated, if I can just interrupt, that wasn’t an impression. We were told.  I believe Diane and somebody else was meeting and we were told that Progressive had said they were interested in participating in the project of building the restrooms. That’s what we were told. We just didn’t know a dollar amount. As a matter of fact, I think the term was somebody might buy the materials, someone else might do that labor.  It was clearly discussed. I am sure it is in the Minutes.  So it wasn’t a rumor and I am glad to hear they want to participate in something.

Mr. Marrelli replied, I guess it just boils down to what the definition of the project is. 

Council President Buckholtz asked, any questions or comments?

Mrs. Mills stated, it’s not on the Special meeting agenda.  Mr. Marrie agreed.  You will have to amend it.

Law Director

  • Riparian Setbacks Legislation (Codified Ordinance Chapter 1127)

Ms. Calta stated, this is an Ordinance that has been through Ordinance Review and Planning and Zoning.  Planning and Zoning did recommend it to Council at their meeting this evening.  It is part of the requirements for the Village’s NPDES, Phase II.    The Ordinance is patterned after the Chagrin Watershed sample ordinance and it does submit a process for variances to the setbacks and also procedures to implement the Ordinance.

Mr. Cappello reported, if you recall the map that Kyle was talking about which was the stormwater program’s responsibility and the tier of 300 acres of contributing drainage area. Those are the blue lines that go to the streams and creeks that fall under that criteria.  The Riparian Setback is set up based on drainage area 0-300 acres of drainage area, the setback from the creeks, what they call normal high water.  It’s not the center of the creek but the edge of the creek in which water would be flowing.  25 feet is the first tier.  What they recommend is that no building, no clearing, to keep the stream healthy you would not promote erosion in that area. The next tier which is 300 up to 2 square miles, the next tier is 75 feet setback on either side of the creek’s normal high water. The maps shows very few properties that fall into that criteria even though we have a decent amount of creeks and streams that have that, all the areas that creek runs through are in deeper.  Worton Park is an exception. What this basically states is you are not really allowed to do major improvements in that zone. That doesn’t mean if you have a house, garage or driveway there you have to get rid of it. It just means that any future improvement that fall within that zone, you would have to come before the Zoning Board to get a variance to be able to construct something. We have the ability to grant that.  That’s it in a nutshell.  It’s again to help prevent erosion.  Also, keeping the area shaded around without clearing helps keep the creek cool which also helps the economy.

Council President Buckholtz asked, would you say it also assists the resident from deterring them from building something?

Mr. Cappello replied, correct. Again, what they try to do, the Village in this area is all built up, but let’s say we have areas not yet developed.  What would happen then is if a development plan came, we would then make sure that was plotted on there and any improvements would not be allowed to be done in that area. We would have control over it.  For the most part, it is already built up.

Council President Buckholtz asked, any questions? There were none.


Council President Buckholtz asked if there were any other matters before Council.

Mr. Thomas stated, we are looking for some volunteers for Cruise Night.   Please call our office if you can assist.

Council President Buckholtz thanked Mr. Thomas. Anyone else? There were no further matters.

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at approximately 9:25 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,

Mary E. Betsa, Clerk of Council