D&I - May 2nd 2016
MINUTES OF THE
DRAINAGE & INFRASTRUCTURE
STORM WATER MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE
Meeting of Monday, May 2, 2016 - 6:00 p.m.
The Drainage & Infrastructure Committee met on Monday, May 2, 2016 in the Mayfield Village Civic Hall. Mr. Jerome called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m.
Present: Mike Bucci (Resident Representative), Tom Cappello (Engineer), Steve Jerome (Council Representative), Tom Marrie (Council Representative (6:45)), Doug Metzung (Service Director), Al Meyers (Resident Representative), Joe Saponaro (Council Representative), Mary Betsa (For Committee Secretary Susan Jerome)
Also Present: Mayor Bodnar (left for another meeting at 6:55)
Approval of February 1, 2016 Meeting Minutes
Mr. Saponaro, seconded by Mr. Meyers, made a motion to approve the Minutes of the Meeting of February 1, 2016.
Motion Carried. Minutes approved.
Discussion of Open 2015 Projects
- Mrs. Harris - 6897 Wildwood
Mr. Metzung reported, we have surveyed the area so we could go and price that project out, take that to bid and get it cleaned up. There has been some question of responsibility for that project; that project being in the easement. I would like to take a second to pass out something. I just received this from our legal counsel.
So the question of responsibility to repair the swale - in the past the Village has taken that on themselves as part of the, if it’s in a drainage easement, that we have taken that on ourselves for maintenance of that. This is a little bit more than maintenance so the question is how do we want to handle that? I will give you a second to read the attorney’s note. I will give a copy to Mrs. Harris.
The job is scoped out so we are prepared to make the repairs that are needed there, to reswale that swale and once again provide positive drainage. As you may or may not recall, this does affect several properties to the west and actually travels underneath Zorn Lane to the west on Wildwood Trail. It’s approximately four homes, I believe, that covers before there is a catch basin in that direction.
Mr. Jerome asked, do you have any estimate of what it might cost?
Mr. Metzung replied, not at this time, no.
Mr. Jerome replied, okay. I guess that’s the next step. We talked about this last year. There was some extra issues going on here that D&I would be covering. I think that we see from the Law Department saying that we need to stick with that, so I guess at this point if you guys want to go out for some estimates, what it will take to do.
Mr. Metzung stated, I don’t want to per se go out for estimates. If we are going to go out we are going to go out and bid the project. I don’t like to get contractors just kind of guessing it and then later bid the project. If we are going to bid it, let’s bid it and move forward with it.
Mr. Meyers asked, does the mound have to be removed and the pond filled in order to recreate the swale or no?
Mr. Metzung replied, well the mound has to be removed from the swale.
Mr. Meyers asked, but can it just be moved back?
Mr. Metzung replied, it can be removed out of the drainage easement, sure.
559 Timberline Trail
It is an adjacent property to the address. If the pile of dirt was just moved up on to her land then because of a natural flow it would then flood my yard so I would really appreciate since I have had a lot of drainage problems over the years that we can have that also going on. Thank you.
Mr. Metzung stated, Mrs. Kubicek, I should have gotten you a copy of this. While it doesn’t speak to you directly, you are part of that project.
I am the property affected. When we were here last year, I am not sure that the Minutes were accurate in reflecting what was discussed because at the time my understanding was that the swale was going to be reestablished. First of all, in order to do that all of the trees that were planted in the swale which was way before me and the city had knowledge about and let it go on were going to be removed because you can’t make a swale without that and then we had to do something with the dirt. Then the discussion went to what do we do with the dirt? Well the reason he did all of this was to put this pond thing in the backyard with all these big rocks. Well the thing with the rocks, they did this thing for land and by doing it and by seeing how the land laid you can tell that my yard moves on and flattens out and that’s why Rose’s it flattens out and the water just goes right over there and by all of those trees. So they have to do something with that and what we had discussed doing at the time which is not in those Minutes and I hope someone else remembers this other than me, but what we had discussed at that time was taking the rocks that one of the other Councilmen who was sitting over here at the time, but I don’t know who it was, would like those rocks to remove those because they had somewhere they had to put the dirt and they had to make the thing so it would actually drain that way too. That doesn’t really help Rose because my yard is killing her trees and the trees that belong to the Metroparks. Fixing the swale will help the other two yards but it’s not going to help her and what I was told at that meeting was my responsibility would be I guess 10% of whatever this was but on top of that mine would be they were going to do the rough grading and then I was to do the final grading and seeding but now I understand that maybe plans have been changed and that’s okay, but I would kind of like somebody to look at that and at least discuss.
Mr. Jerome asked, Doug, do you have anything to add?
Mr. Metzung stated, I just know that during the discussions at the last meeting, we were pretty clear about what was public easement and what was private property.
Mr. Jerome asked, what about these trees that are in the swale?
Mr. Metzung replied, yes, they’ve got to go because they are planted on top of the mound so that’s just part of the excavation to clear the swale. All of that would be removed.
Mr. Jerome asked, what are your thoughts about affecting the property next to them?
Mr. Metzung replied, the swale that’s filled in and mounded continues into Mrs. Kubicek’s property. The same thing applies so all of that has to get removed to reestablish the swale.
Mr. Saponaro stated, I am more confused by the memo we got from the Law Department. What does this say that’s different because it sounds different from what we are talking about.
Mr. Metzung stated, the question is that Mrs. Harris is alluding that we promised to do some work in her yard and the answer to that is no we never offered that. The memo is saying that even if someone offered that, they couldn’t have offered that because it’s not what we can do.
Mr. Cappello stated, Mrs. Harris, here is the pond/pool, whatever you want to call it. Here’s the 20-foot drainage easement.
Mr. Saponaro asked, do you want to come up and look at it? You are more than welcome to come up and look at it.
Mr. Cappello continued, there’s a 20-foot drainage easement established here and there’s one going here. The original grading plan showed a swale that went here and just dissipated off into the park. There’s no catch basin, no storm sewer or anything like that over there. I believe whoever owned this house before dug this out and then filled it in, built the mound with the swales from here to build whatever mound is over here with the trees. So the problem now is there’s no swale. We need to reestablish the swale. This is fairly close to what the original grading plan was. That needs to be done and that work is done in the easement
Mr. Bucci asked, where’s the pond?
Mr. Cappello stated, it’s like a landscaping thing or whatever the guy built. There’s liner there.
Mrs. Harris stated, there’s those big landscaping rocks.
Mr. Bucci asked, but that has nothing to do with the swale?
Mr. Cappello replied, no. This has nothing to do with the swale. So what happened though is he dug this out to create this. He just moved the dirt over here instead of hauling it out.
Mr. Harris replied, oh no, he hauled in dirt. What else he did though is here’s the pond and so this property comes down and flattens out here so even if he reestablished this, the water just comes down here and goes from here over to here. Fixing the swale –
Mr. Cappello stated, reestablishing the swale the way it was originally and when this house was built, if the drainage worked, it would have worked with the swale. He changed this. Again, not to be, this is not our problem. This is the property owner’s problem. Now, granted, we can price this out and give you, let’s say we get a low bidder and we award it, we can have him contact you or you can contact him and you can make some arrangement or whatever between you guys how you want to handle this here. I mean, if I’m the contractor, hey, great. I don’t have to haul this dirt out. But there’s got to be a separation. That’s the tricky part. I think I even mentioned in that meeting how do we separate that?
Mrs. Harris stated, because if you have to pay to haul out the dirt versus the rock thing. How about this? This is an idea. I mean, is that okay to throw out an idea? My brother was a contractor for years, like 30 years. He’s been retired a long time, but he used to own backhoes and dump trucks and all of that and he said that if we could either use the city one or rent a front end loader, or a backhoe or something –
Mr. Metzung stated, a bobcat.
Mrs. Harris stated, a bobcat he said isn’t heavy enough to haul out these big rocks. As long as it has John Deere controls, he is fully qualified and he can prove to anybody he can run it and we can do that and can get the rocks out properly.
Mr. Cappello stated, I think, again, rocks, those aren’t ours. That’s not our issue. Those are your problem. We need to establish a swale. The dirt from that with the mound and everything, again, that’s something, this is where it gets a little tricky because how do I separate that? Unless we have some agreement with you that they are allowed to just take this material and put it on your property and then at that point the swale’s done.
Mrs. Harris asked, but where do I put it?
Mr. Cappello stated, they will have to hire somebody then to fill in the –
Mrs. Harris stated, yeah, but I can’t, where are you going to put this dirt with this pond because it fills up the whole area so I don’t know where you are going to put the dirt.
Mr. Cappello stated, again, this is where I have a problem. The cleanest way, I come in and build the swale and if I have to haul the dirt out I haul it out, okay? If you can make an arrangement with the contractor, again, that’s between you two. He ends up making money to haul the dirt out, but there’s a fine balance here between where I start going on private property how do you break this up? I need to establish the swale, okay? Once that’s done, we walk away. If you can hire somebody or you hire this guy and have him give you a quote, say hey, what would it cost for you to remove this pond? I don’t know if you want to get rid of the rocks. You can place the rocks someplace in your yard if you want. It’s up to you. Or he’ll haul them off. They are worth money.
Mrs. Harris agreed. They are worth money.
Mr. Cappello stated, that would be between you and them.
I am co-owner of the property. When you say establish a swale, does that include disposing of all of the trees and debris?
Mr. Cappello replied, yes, we would have to cut the trees down and take them away.
Mrs. Harris stated, in this corner over here, there’s a pile of dead trees too.
Mr. Metzung stated, the pile of dead trees sitting here is not our issue.
Mrs. Harris said, that’s on hers.
Mrs. Kubicek stated, partially on mine.
Mr. Cappello stated, anything outside the easement-
Mr. Metzung stated, we don’t touch.
Mr. Harris stated, but again, we would be free to work with the contractor?
Mr. Cappello replied, I don’t see why not. Again, ultimately, I would like to save money by saying, telling the contractor, you can dump dirt, but then that gets into, oh, well, you don’t want it, or something happens, do you see what I am saying? It’s just becomes really crazy.
Mrs. Harris stated, and you don’t know who the contractor would be yet.
Mr. Cappello stated, right. If you know who the contractor is, it can be awarded to him, we will give him your name, you can work with him how you want to possibly restore that area because if I’m him, I’m thinking great, all I got to do is haul some rocks away. I can get rid of this dirt. You may save money. It’s kind of like a fine line here. I am not sure how to really make it work right that we would separate work on private property.
Mr. Saponaro stated, the way to do it is establish the contractor here and then get you guys in contact with them, probably you as well and figure out, because if you are affected here, it may be, and then you guys figure out what you need to do. If you want to leave the dirt on there, you can leave it on there. If you ask him to haul it away, he hauls it away.
Mr. Meyers stated, even by filling in the flat spot, it’s not going to eliminate the water from going to Mrs. Kubicek’s.
Mr. Cappello it’s the natural course of water.
Mr. Meyers stated, even filling it in doesn’t help the water problem.
Mr. Metzung stated, no, it doesn’t help this water this way. And then all of this is being wooded. The water doesn’t really flow through there. It gets held up by roots and things.
Mrs. Harris stated, filling in this area here through here will, it will go into here then, it will push it to the soil.
Mr. Meyers stated, it will still go this way though.
Mr. Saponaro stated, you are trying to give it a lane.
Mrs. Harris stated, right.
Mr. Saponaro stated, you are trying to create a lane for it so it doesn’t just stop and go this way or just lay right there. You want to create a lane and try to direct it.
Mrs. Harris stated, we are definitely willing to work with you, but the one thing that really just kind of bothered me a lot is when the thing said that what was said that I was here, I know it was said, somebody just admit that they said it. I am okay with changing the deal, but I would appreciate it if somebody would be honest.
Mr. Saponaro stated, it’s not about being honest or not, we don’t take or didn’t at the time take verbatim, we don’t take verbatim minutes so what the person who takes the minutes does is they create a synopsis of what has gone on. So it’s not a, and then so and so said this and who said that.
Mrs. Harris stated, oh, I understand that, but a very important part that was in my feelings left out was at the time we talked about those rocks and what was said at the time was in order to have a place to put the dirt one of the Councilmen wanted the rocks and-
Mr. Saponaro stated, it wouldn’t be a Councilman, because there’s only three of us and none of us would want the rocks.
Mrs. Harris stated, somebody that was sitting over there wanted those rocks.
Mr. Jerome stated, regardless of what happened last time, this is just unfortunately where we are at.
Mr. Saponaro stated, we can’t do anything on your property except do this in the easement and then have you guys work hopefully with the contractor to kind of fulfill whatever requirement that you need.
Mrs. Harris asked, are you willing to let my brother, if he can prove to you?
Mr. Metzung replied, no.
Mr. Saponaro replied, no we can’t. You mean to use our equipment? You can’t. You can’t have anyone use the equipment.
Mr. Metzung added, first of all, we are bidding the job out so it’s not going to be ours.
Mr. Saponaro stated, even if we weren’t, we can’t. The liability is too great.
Mr. Metzung stated, I can’t imagine a contractor is going to say okay, but you never know.
Mr. Saponaro stated, there certainly are places that rent all of that. Handi-Rents rents believe it or not rents a lot of that stuff.
Mrs. Harris stated, that’s what are looking at. How about if we come to something somewhere in the middle here, at least if I take care of all of this, if you at least get rid of all of the dead trees for her?
Mr. Saponaro replied, we can’t.
Mrs. Kubicek asked, well, they are partially on the swale so you are going to take them anyway right?
Mr. Cappello stated, if it’s in the swale, we cut it.
Mr. Saponaro stated, anything that’s in the swale, will be taken.
Mrs. Harris stated, these dead trees aren’t all in the swale though. There’s a pile of dead trees right about here.
Mr. Cappello stated, I think the other thing to remember here is if we step back even a second, there’s, the Law Department even mentioned this before, it’s buyer beware. You bought the problem.
Mrs. Harris answered, I understand.
Mr. Cappello stated, realistically we could just be saying you need to reestablish the swale.
Mr. Metzung stated, and I’m not saying that we are actually clear that the Village is going to do this. There is some question to whether the Village will redo this swale on our own. In other words that goes back to that part of the letter there that talks about reestablishing the swale can be taken on by D&I. If that were the case, it may be a 10% or 90/10 split.
Mr. Jerome stated, that’s the big thing. You can be in other communities where they would tell you you have to do everything. So you need to understand where we are coming from. We are willing to do what we have been doing for several years with the Drainage and Infrastructure Committee but we have to kind to stick –
Mr. Saponaro stated to the rubric and to our rules.
Mrs. Harris stated, I understand that.
Mr. Saponaro stated, and I can’t go back and tell you something was said when it wasn’t but I understand that’s sticking in your craw.
Mrs. Harris stated, that’s what bothers me about the whole thing.
Mr. Saponaro stated, I know. I understand. I don’t think that there was anything, there was no intention to mislead or do any of those things. It may have been the way it was said, the way it was interpreted or understood but we would not go on a property and say, yes, we will take care of all of this for you. Then we would have a lot of people standing in line saying, okay, well, I’ve got a problem, will you do that? On behalf of Council, if something was said that you misconstrued or was said inartfully, we apologize. It certainly was not the intention to lead you with that impression. But we do need to look at this and this project either gets taken care of one of three ways. One is through the Village, the second way is through Drainage and Infrastructure and the third way is you. So we have to figure out, how do we get to the path of least resistance and benefit you as well so that we can help out as much as we can?
Mr. Meyers stated, and I think one thing you need to realize is once this is fixed, the water, you have the place to put the water. Right now, no matter what you do in your yard, it doesn’t go anywhere without that swale being put back so you have got to start somewhere.
Mr. Cappello stated, again, the swale was established. I looked at the old site plan. Yards change. So sometimes even what happens in your yard, the swale was there, we put it back the way it is supposed to be, but trees and stuff grow and prevent water from going in. A lot of that is again on the homeowner. Here’s 904, here’s 903, the problem is you have those trees so if you start filling in the swale to here, you may have some issues with some of these trees. I am not sure what the quality is of them or not. You still may get some small areas of water.
Mr. Harris stated, it will change the environment of the roots and you could lose some of those anyways.
Mrs. Harris stated, they are all dead anyways.
Mr. Cappello stated, if they are dead, the easiest thing then is to get rid of them all, plus if you work with this guy if he’s got extra dirt because he hauled it in, you may have a nice straight easy grade to there.
Mr. Saponaro stated, and the biggest issue seems to be removing these rocks.
Mrs. Harris stated, we talked about that actually.
Mr. Saponaro stated, they can be buried but-
Mrs. Harris stated, they will also come back up.
Mr. Cappello stated, if they are that big, and again, if you work out with whoever this person is.
Mr. Saponaro stated, those are huge value.
Mrs. Harris stated, it’s $240 a pallet. I looked at it. If I can get them out to the street which my brother says he can do that with equipment, people would buy it.
Mr. Jerome asked, do you know places where those came from, who sells them? Maybe they would be willing to come and buy them.
Mrs. Harris stated, they are not willing to take them out.
Mr. Harris stated, they are like 70 pounds of rock.
Mrs. Harris stated, oh, no, they are more than 70 pounds. They are like this big around and this thick. That’s why I said a bobcat won’t do it.
Mr. Jerome stated, the only other thing I wanted to mention Doug, if it is going to be over $10,000?
Mr. Cappello stated, possibly. It’s hard to say.
Mr. Saponaro stated, we will cross that bridge. We will have to take it to Council.
Mr. Metzung stated, if I could, on the subject before we go to the next one. Mrs. Harris’ assertion that I changed the meeting minutes, it’s a pretty substantial charge and I don’t take that lightly. It’s not something you can do. You don’t change the meeting minutes. To make that charge is pretty egregious without having some type of tape or something to back that up. Council was distributed those meeting minutes long before our next conversation. They have not been touched. With that I will let it go.
Mrs. Harris stated, I will look at them. I am sorry that it bothered you. It bothered me just as much because I heard it differently. So we can both be upset, how’s that?
Mr. Metzung stated, well, it’s one thing to think that we may have misunderstood each other. But to go back and say I changed Minutes, that’s, certainly there was a lot of discussion that day.
Mr. Jerome stated, we know where we are at now today, so if we have a motion to have Doug go out for bid.
Mr. Metzung stated, I don’t recall and I apologize. Did we do a rating of this project? This goes back to what we will get to eventually. Maybe we should have done these in a different order. We talked about if we run it through Drainage and Infrastructure if that rubric is still used to determine how we work it. That really will come back to the discussion at the very end that I would like to have regarding the Committee and where we are at with things such as drainage and easements.
Mr. Saponaro stated, there’s nothing that we can see in the paperwork here that shows that there was an evaluation done.
Mr. Jerome asked, is it something we can maybe do right now?
Mr. Saponaro stated, why not?
Mr. Jerome asked, number of properties affected – 2-3 or 4-5?
Mr. Cappello replied, DiFranco, Mrs. Harris and her neighbor.
Mr. Metzung stated, and then there’s I believe at least 3 to the west of Zorn before the next catch basin. That’s where the drainage starts.
Mr. Jerome asked, so 6 plus?
Mr. Cappello replied, actually 7 if you count the neighbor.
Mr. Jerome asked, everyone okay with that then?
Mr. Saponaro replied, yes. It is what it is.
Mr. Jerome stated, health and safety, considerations include possibility of personal injury, weather conditions prevent access for safety and service vehicles, potential health hazard: severe, moderate, minimal or none?
Mr. Saponaro asked, what do you guys think?
Mr. Jerome asked, minimal?
Mr. Metzung stated, it’s not at this point, have anything to do with structure or doing anything to. I can’t imagine it building up enough to where it impedes the flow across Zorn Lane.
Mr. Jerome asked, no vehicles need to get back there?
Mr. Metzung replied, no.
Mr. Saponaro asked, so minimal or none?
Mr. Jerome replied, it’s none. Property damage – severe, moderate, minimal or property damage is imminent or no property damage is likely to occur?
Mr. Metzung stated, I would have to say there certainly is some property damage in the areas where the swale got filled in what would be to the south of that where the water has flowed down to the mound is pretty saturated now.
Mr. Saponaro stated, I would think that’s severe in the sense of you now have to remove all of those trees that are dead.
Mr. Metzung replied, and the grade itself, swale or no swale does shed towards the park. I don’t want to go severe. It’s not like that. It’s wet back there. It’s more moderate.
Mr. Jerome asked, and then topographical nuisance?
Mrs. Harris asked, can we back up one? While I was gone, and the DiFrancos cut the one tree, I guess one of the trees, I don’t know if it makes it severe or not, but one of the trees broke off and dug into his property. It wouldn’t bother me because it’s in the back except it broke his underground dog fence thing. They are all falling like that.
Mr. Harris stated, with the wet ground, it’s probably a small risk but one of those trees could fall.
Mr. Metzung stated, I think it’s still moderate.
Mr. Jerome asked, topographical nuisance – severe, moderate, minimal or not caused by topographical nuisance?
Mr. Metzung stated, it’s pretty severe.
Mr. Saponaro stated, severe it is. So that’s 10. 4, 3 and 3.
Mrs. Kubicek stated, my basement is flooding with the way the water comes down Zorn Lane into Wildwood and then goes down into the drain.
Mr. Cappello stated, I don’t know if I would say that’s the case.
Mr. Metzung stated, that’s not true. I wish I could agree, but no. The water shedding off the back of your house towards the Metroparks is still plenty high. The water you are getting that is flooding your basement is coming through your pipes in the front. This has got nothing to do with it. This is a completely different world. The sanitary sewer and that swale are two different worlds.
Mrs. Harris stated, I think that she’s trying to say ---
Mrs. Kubicek stated, it comes down the road.
Mrs. Harris stated, because the swale is filled in, it comes down the road. She showed it to me the one day I was there. It was torrid.
Mr. Metzung asked, so it comes down Zorn Lane and goes into the catch basin. That’s still not-
Mr. Cappello stated, that’s the water that’s coming off of the roadway.
Mr. Metzung stated, as it crosses Zorn it goes out and goes down Zorn.
Mr. Cappello stated, I would have to look at that. There’s a retaining wall across that first property. The swale is fairly well established I believe on the corner property.
Mrs. Kubicek stated, the first house, the swale is there.
Mr. Cappello replied, yes. When it hits the Harris’ property, it floods the yard, at least from what I can tell. I don’t think it backs up.
Mrs. Harris stated, the Fredors(sp?) are on the corner and behind them are the DiFrancos. When that swale is full because it can’t come down my property, it backs up through, that’s why I had that one picture where the dog is standing by the little drain, it backs up that drain into his driveway and it goes out his driveway then because he’s out there trying to fix it so it doesn’t go into his house. That’s why they both thought that was what was going it. I am not a water person, but it made sense at the time.
Mr. Metzung asked, did you take our survey stakes?
Mrs. Harris stated, it was out and in case somebody was saying it wasn’t done, I could prove it was done.
Mr. Metzung stated, not likely though that those two are related really, that the water coming down and going in that catch basin is flooding your home. I do recall I know we have had both of your sewers snaked out and that sort of thing. You were getting much, it was much worse previously when we had-
Mrs. Harris stated, you changed the flow or something.
Mr. Metzung stated, we changed the flow from the Hickory Hill neighborhood which used to go to a pump station in the corner. It would pump it across, down Zorn to the Timberline pump station and it would pump it out. That would surcharge the sanitary sewer. We have since removed that and put a pump station at Hickory Hill. It did go straight down.
Mr. Cappello stated, it’s still there, but we intercepted the force. Instead of going on Zorn when we did Metro Park sanitary it took it to the SOM sewer.
Mr. Metzung stated, right. We removed a lot of water that was going into the Wildwood Timberline sewer and took that out and where she was at on that corner she was in a bad spot for that.
Mr. Jerome asked, any other questions for any of the Committee members on this project?
There were none.
Mr. Jerome stated, okay, I think we have a rating of 10 points out of a possible 17. At this point, you want to go out to bid? Is that where we are at?
Mr. Cappello stated, looking at the size of the project, this makes sense for the three options that Joe mentioned, we should get this bid out at least if the Village is going to do it.
Mr. Jerome stated, if this Committee is okay, maybe make a motion.
Mr. Bucci asked, you gave it a zero on health and safety and you have a lot of standing water? You don’t see it as a health issue?
Mr. Metzung replied, I don’t know if there’s much standing water. I didn’t see any standing water. I saw it was mushy.
Mr. Bucci asked, we won’t have no mosquito problems?
Mr. Metzung replied, I don’t know that I saw standing water. When I was out there I didn’t see standing water. I saw the ground being pretty mushy. I didn’t see anything that caused me to go, its’s a flood back here. I didn’t see anything of that nature. You were there more recently than I, I don’t know if you did.
Mr. Jerome asked for a motion for Drainage and Infrastructure to ask them to go out to bid.
Motion to go out to bid.
Mr. Saponaro, seconded by Mr. Bucci, made a motion to go out to bid.
Mr. Jerome stated okay, so D&I is okay with you going out for a bid regardless of whether D&I takes it on or Mayfield Village as a whole and we will get an update at the next meeting or meeting after.
- Mr. and Mrs. prince: 477 Oakton
Mr. Metzung stated, their concern was ponding in front of their shed that they had in the back and one of our earlier D&I projects had brought a drain to the property behind her on Hickory Hill. When we do these kind of projects, we’ve typically said you can connect to that. This is kind of the main line out. If you want to put a feeder into that, that’s fine. In Mrs. Prince’s case, this is not going to be as easy as that. There is a great deal of trees between her and the drain. I don’t know if that changes our, it certainly shouldn’t change our perspective as how we look at the project but it doesn’t change for her how this gets handled. I don’t know if this was ever rated either.
Mr. Jerome stated, I don’t know if it was.
Mr. Bucci asked, what is the homeowner asking?
Mr. Metzung replied, to help with the ponding in their backyard. It actually is standing water. I don’t know if it lasts a day or so.
Mrs. Prince replied, that picture is from this morning.
Mr. Metzung stated, I hate to judge these things so much when it has been raining out for a week. Everybody’s yard is wet.
Mr. Bucci asked, what would we be doing?
Mr. Metzung replied, she is looking for relief to help with the water.
Mr. Bucci asked, what is the relief, like putting a sewer in?
Mr. Metzung replied, putting a drain to the area. If you could show them.
Mrs. Prince stated, I didn’t know how to get to the drain that was installed. I don’t know if I’m allowed to get to the drain that was installed.
Mr. Saponaro asked, can you state your name and address just so we have it on the record?
Mr. Bucci stated, my question is more to the Village than to the homeowner. If she has trees, then she wants the Village, Drainage and Infrastructure will put the sewer in?
Mr. Metzung replied, she was looking for, the original project was a Drainage & Infrastructure project. The adjoining yards all had water that collected there. I am sure that at some level Mrs. Prince did receive some benefit from that, probably from the back side of where her trees are, but now this area is to the west of where the drain is to the east with a row of trees between her and the drain.
Mr. Bucci stated, I understand. But the solution would be to put a sewer right?
Mr. Metzung replied, to run a drain, correct.
Mr. Bucci asked, if this project got awarded, then either the Village or the D&I would be running the sewer?
Mr. Metzung replied, correct.
Mr. Bucci asked, on her property?
Mr. Metzung replied, right.
Mr. Bucci stated, right. Right. Exactly. But we don’t move rocks.
Mr. Cappello stated, that’s a totally different thing.
Mr. Bucci stated, it’s still on someone’s property.
Mr. Cappello stated, right, but that’s something that wasn’t caused, a previous owner caused the problem.
Mr. Bucci asked, and this is caused by?
Mr. Cappello replied, natural topography or whatever. Over time, roots, trees, whatever. It’s hard to say.
Mr. Bucci asked, so it’s not caused by the building or the driveway that was put in?
Mr. Cappello replied, no.
Mr. Metzung stated, that is probably not one we would fund.
Mr. Bucci stated, I am just asking.
Mr. Metzung replied, back when the Committee was formed, we have had areas where there were pockets of water that affected multiple residents. How do we get this water out of here and try to do it in some way that it is equitable to everyone, so we came up with this program. Individual homeowners not so much. In this case okay we run this line because we have this area.
Mr. Bucci asked, so the more people it impacts, it’s more of a benefit.
Mr. Saponaro stated, yes. That’s why the number, the way the rubric works.
Mr. Bucci stated, I got it. I just got confused by the e-mail.
Mr. Cappello stated, also, as part of the project we put these in. We have done other projects where we have basically done the grunt work, the big part. We put a sewer in and gave the person a place to tie into. So it wasn’t like we were going to sit back and manicure your lawn. That’s what I am getting at. In this case I am not sure how far it would be to tie into it.
Mr. Bucci stated, right. You gave them the access.
Mr. Cappello stated, right. When you are dealing with multiple neighbors, things like that, this was kind of like letting us do the grunt work to benefit multiple people.
Mr. Bucci asked, and the problem in this case is because of the trees and stuff it’s hard to get to the sewer?
Mr. Cappello stated, well the roots are I imagine is going to be the big issue.
Mr. Metzung replied, correct. So the grading is no longer functioning to that sewer.
Mrs. Prince stated, I don’t care who does it. I just want to know, can I drain into that existing drain?
Mr. Metzung replied, yes.
Mrs. Prince stated, if you tell me yes, you know what, I will do it. It’s fine. I just need to drain my yard because it’s a mess. My outbuilding is mildewed, it’s gone. It’s unusable. My backyard has eroded. I don’t have any grass for probably two-thirds of my backyard because of the water standing. So I am happy to drain my yard if I can drain it into the drain into the yard behind me.
Mr. Saponaro replied, what do we need to do so she can do that?
Mr. Metzung replied, we should do the rubric just so we have that.
Mr. Jerome stated, okay. Number of properties affected would be a 1.
Mr. Metzung replied, yes.
Mr. Jerome stated, health and safety, severe, moderate minimal or none?
Mr. Metzung stated, depends on what you consider standing water, I guess.
Mr. Saponaro stated, I would say at least a 2 and I would have put a 2 on the other one.
Mr. Cappello stated, it would be very similar to this one so whatever we did on Mrs. Harris’ I don’t think I would give her more than that. What did we give on Mrs. Harris, a 1?
Mr. Jerome replied, a zero.
Mr. Saponaro stated, you probably should have given them minimal. Property damage?
Mr. Metzung replied, the shed.
Mr. Jerome stated, moderate.
Mr. Saponaro stated, minimal.
Mr. Metzung stated, I don’t know that it’s moderate. It hasn’t floated away. It’s on the bottom of it.
Mrs. Prince stated, if you see it when it’s dry and realize that there’s no grass growing there.
Mr. Metzung stated, you are going to have a difficult time planting grass there. Just because of the trees. You are not going to get grass to grow there.
Mrs. Prince stated, it’s a mess. Again, I’ll drain it. I don’t care. Just tell me if I can drain it into the drain.
Mr. Saponaro stated, I would say, minimal.
Mr. Metzung stated, the project was built with the intent that people could tie into it.
Mr. Saponaro stated, topographical nuisance.
Mr. Jerome asked, moderate on topographical?
Mr. Saponaro stated, or severe, if it’s sitting there.
Mr. Marrie stated, if it’s sitting there all the time it would be severe.
Mr. Metzung asked, tree roots, is that part of it?
Mr. Saponaro stated, it doesn’t matter. We need to fill it out. Mrs. Prince is willing to perform what she needs to. She needs our approval just to be able to drain into the sewer, right?
Mr. Metzung replied, yes.
Mr. Saponaro stated, so I would call it severe. So you are at 8 out of 17.
Mr. Jerome asked, who makes the decision that she can drain into our catch basin?
Mr. Cappello replied, I think we just need to make sure that the homeowner who the catch basin is on the property that they know that we are going to tie into it.
Mr. Saponaro asked, do we know who that is?
Mr. Metzung replied, not offhand.
Mrs. Prince replied, I don’t remember. I’m sorry.
Mr. Jerome asked, is that something we drew up, some kind of an agreement?
Mr. Metzung replied, we had a temporary work easement to get into those projects. I will pull all that out and we can address those.
Mr. Saponaro stated, okay, so they address it. We don’t have to.
Mr. Jerome stated, I don’t think there’s anything we need to do on our Committee for that one. Just make a note for the minutes that we scored them an 8. Any other questions on 477 Oakton?
There were none.
Mrs. Harris asked, can we back up one second? All I wanted to do was point out that everybody keeps saying that the previous resident did all of this damage which he did. I am willing to do my share which I am. But I want to point out that the city was aware that he did this because Rose sent letters twice to the city saying that he did it. They could have stopped him at any time and they didn’t. So I kind of-
Mr. Saponaro stated, it’s private property. It’s not our place to stop him from doing those things.
Mr. Metzung stated, had we known that he was doing it, and I remember going out to your home and discussing your flooding issues way back when and I am going to tell you I didn’t even look back there. I didn’t even go back into that corner to see what was going on.
Mrs. Harris stated, he did this at different times and you possibly didn’t see it.
Mr. Metzung stated, when I go back into that corner, I don’t even realize that is your property as opposed to Mrs. Harris’ property. It doesn’t compute to me that that corner goes to yours. I apologize. It would have been more Building Department because it’s private property. It would have been stopped immediately because you just can’t fill in a drainage easement. But as far as Mrs. Prince, yes, I will be happy to, we will make those arrangements to get into that so we can make that connection and get you dried out. I think it may cost you some trees. We can pull out the old records to see who the property owner is. I can’t imagine it being much of an issue.
- Ms. Ruddy - 1070 Washington Blvd.
Mr. Metzung stated, Mrs. Ruddy is at the end of Washington Extension which is actually I believe an easement on the School’s property that we have undertaken this year to pave for those three residents. At the very end of it it drains down to the end and goes into a little creek. Her one concern is certainly her neighbor who has a drainpipe that comes off his house on to the front part of Mrs. Ruddy’s home and drains across the property and the other is the drainage coming down from the road and it washes the road out and then it has to go through these little woods into the creek.
Mrs. Ruddy stated, you said you were going to pave it, but I e-mailed you, I e-mailed him. Nobody answers me. I have so many questions.
Mr. Metzung stated, we will do our best. I know you did email me again regarding the property pins and I talked to Tom but I just didn’t get an opportunity to get back to you. I apologize for that. As part of this project we will provide the drainage at the end of the drive out into the woods and get that all cleared up. As I said, it will be on the east side of your drive. We are going to try to swale that somewhat to get the water to go out that way.
Mrs. Ruddy asked, you are going to slant the road to the east?
Mr. Cappello replied, yes.
Mrs. Ruddy stated, totally happy. I’m happy with my gravel. If you slant the road to the east, you or I would just dig a ditch along the east side?
Mr. Metzung stated, it would be done as part of the project.
Mrs. Ruddy asked, do I have to have the asphalt? I would be happy with the gravel as long as the water goes off the side.
Mr. Cappello replied, it’s going to be tilted about a quarter inch of a foot slope along the entire drive.
Mr. Metzung stated, we would not be able to get the water to drain if we didn’t pave it.
Mr. Cappello stated, whatever water is coming from the houses, I think there’s a slight swale there already.
Mrs. Ruddy replied, it’s not supposed to be.
Mr. Metzung stated, if it’s not paved, you wouldn’t be able to do anything with where you get the big holes at the end of your drive. Those will always keep coming back and coming back.
Mr. Saponaro asked, is this coming before us or are you guys handling this?
Mr. Metzung replied, she brought it as a D&I. I don’t think it is.
Mr. Saponaro stated, we can remove it from our agenda then, can’t we? You guys are dealing with it.
Mr. Cappello replied, it would be part of the 2015 Road Project.
Mrs. Ruddy stated, but the other part which I talked to Mr. Marrelli and he said I don’t want to see you anymore and I said I don’t agree with him because regardless of what he thinks, I’m so tired of it.
Mr. Metzung stated, as far as with the pipe, with the water coming out.
Mrs. Ruddy replied, right, because it’s so hard for me. Every year I have to go get gravel.
Mr. Metzung replied, that’s why this paving project takes that off the table.
Mrs. Ruddy stated, between my neighbor’s yard from her pipe. I have to keep filling in my lawn.
Mr. Metzung stated, maybe we can extend that pipe now so that it goes out to the roadway and it will drain across the street. Unfortunately, this is a fight between you and your neighbor. All of this is private property back there. Once we put this roadway in and tilt it away from the properties, to go to them and say let’s put 5 foot 10 foot whatever length of that pipe they need to get to the roadway so that it drains away, maybe that answers that question.
Mrs. Ruddy stated, okay.
Mr. Saponaro stated, but again, that’s not for this Committee. That’s really something you guys can deal with. It’s not a project for us.
Mr. Metzung stated, it’s on private property. I think we can address that in that fashion. Part of it is you are on the bottom of the hill. You are still going to get water coming across your property coming down from Ridgebury. The water does head your direction. You are at the bottom. But that water that comes off their house into the pipe, we will see if we can extend that pipe and take it out to the roadway.
Mr. Jerome stated, okay, so we are going to remove this project. It’s not a D&I project. We will remove that from our docket.
- Discussion of D&I Ordinance Regarding Drainage In and Out of Easement Areas
Mr. Metzung stated, in the past, in a little ad hoc in drainage projects that are in easements like Mrs. Harris was brought to us by a Drainage & Infrastructure project so it got to this Committee in that regard. Other times we have had drainage easements where we have realized this is a drainage easement. We have just taken care of that as a Village function. Is it something that the Committee wants? As part of the Ordinance it does talk about drainage swales and yadda yadda yadda for the purpose of this it could be brought through this Committee it appears. Is that something this Committee would like to do or would you just as soon say if it’s a Village easement and you are handling it under that –
Mr. Saponaro stated, yes, because from our perspective it’s always been more for the private properties that are affected by water in a bunch of properties that have been affected and how can we help? If there’s something dealing with the easement, you don’t need to come to us. We bring it back to you.
Mr. Metzung stated, the Ordinance does speak to coming before the Committee.
Mr. Saponaro stated, and that’s fine, but in order to do that-
Mr. Jerome stated, it can, but it doesn’t have to. It can come to us but then we are just going to look at you and you are going to say it’s the Village.
Mr. Marrie stated, it doesn’t say it must go through.
Mr. Metzung stated, the Ordinance does talk about drainage for the purpose of the drainage, blah blah blah blah and then it goes to, two sections down it goes to, now it starts where it talks about the Committee. Over the years, this Committee has certainly taken a lot of turns.
Mr. Jerome stated, it doesn’t say it must come through here.
Mr. Saponaro stated, if you want it to, really you have to tee it up and bring it to us. We will give you our thoughts on it, vote on it, and give it back to you. That’s basically what we do. It’s fine.
Mr. Metzung stated, okay. So I think then we will start to look at more of these in that nature.
Mr. Jerome stated, I think there are some things, we have gotten better with this Committee but we do need to talk about maybe restructuring the rubric a little bit more.
Mr. Metzung stated, I don’t disagree with that. I also think that –
Mr. Saponaro asked, I thought Tommy was going to redo the rubric? Wasn’t that at one of the meetings?
Mr. Cappello clarified, the charts.
Mr. Saponaro stated, I didn’t see the chart.
Mr. Jerome stated, the chart’s in the other room.
Mr. Saponaro stated, we need all of the stuff that this committee receives has to be put in our packets. Mary Beth if you could work with Susan Jerome and make sure that everything that she does comes to you for Friday packets because-
Mr. Jerome stated, either weekly or before the end of the month to make sure that whatever came in that month we get.
Mr. Saponaro stated, however it gets done. We just need to have it in our packets.
Mr. Metzung stated, she does e-mail it, but this way it will be in the packets.
Mr. Jerome stated, that’s why we started doing this chart, so we don’t lose track. We still need the information.
Mr. Saponaro stated, if you could work with her on that.
Any Other Matters
Mr. Jerome stated, the next meeting I will be out of town if we were to do it before the Caucus like we usually do so we could do it a different day or I don’t need to be there.
Mr. Bucci asked, what’s the date on that?
Mr. Saponaro replied, June 6th.
Mr. Bucci stated, I will also be out of town.
Mr. Jerome stated, any reason to meet?
Mr. Saponaro stated, if there’s something that needs to come in front of us, just send it through e-mail.
Mr. Jerome stated, okay. At this point we are not going to schedule a meeting for June. If something comes up we can schedule it later in June when a couple of us are back in town.
Mr. Jerome asked, are there any other matters? There were none.
There being no further matters, the meeting adjourned at 7:02 p.m